Certainly NOT for the faint of heart.

As a newbie to literature events, Laura Bates' interview with Durham Literature Festival was the event equivalent to jumping headfirst into a sea of man-eating sharks. The discussion was based around her new book Men Who Hate Women (2020), a painful insight into the world of extremist misogyny hidden behind the walls of social media.

I chose to attend Laura Bates' interview with Durham Literature Festival after recognising her from her 2014 book Everyday Sexism. I remembered feeling so strongly towards that book during my high school years that I was eager to see how far she had gotten in the world of sexism and misogyny. Safe to say she did not disappoint. The interview was extremely hard hitting and at times hard to listen to, but what truly grasped me was how much it impacted me once it had ended. I found myself close to tears once the zoom call ended, so much so that I had to leave my house and go for a walk to clear my mind. It may then be surprising that I would choose to relive this experience by writing about it considering how deeply wounded I felt afterwards, but something so chilling coming from Laura who came across as a picture of calmness when talking so graphically about the 200 death and rape threats she receives in a day made me want to dive deeper into the darker side of the web where incels and extremists hide.

I must say that this event, although inspiring me to educate myself further on the topic of extremist misogyny, did leave a sour taste in my mouth. With this particular interview with Laura being my first literature event, I definitely felt as if I didn't want to attend any others any time soon after. The atmosphere itself was relaxed and initially it came across as if it would be a light-hearted discussion but it very quickly changed its tune. I expected some distressing conversation especially after reading Men Who hate Women due to the uncensored nature of the book, but I maybe wasn't quite as prepared as i'd have liked. Both Laura and the interviewer delved deep into the true nature of misogynistic incel groups that are formed on social media platforms such as Reddit and how our perception of these men as loners sitting in their basement couldn't be farther from the truth. It was scary to be told that the men who troll women online can be your neighbour, co-worker or even your friend. The frightening reality of it all is that these scary people exist in our day-to-day lives and more often than not, we're naive to it.

Laura bought a lot of attention to the fact that men learn behaviour based on what they see and if they're considered vulnerable then they're easily influenced by a variety of different things. One subject Laura bought up which I found particularly interesting was the subject of pornography and how it is inherently violent towards women. BBC Three writes how many people use porn as a way to not only enjoy themselves, but also as a tool to learn about sex. Now if this is the case and we have learnt that pornograhpic content is often damaging towards the image of women, then this leads naturally to the conclusion that men are learning to degrade and use women when it comes to sex.

Toxic masculinity came up a lot during this discussion, a subject that many people approach with caution because of the negative connotations that come with it. I really felt that Laura wanted the viewers of this interview to understand that we should challenge certain mindsets and that we shouldn't submit because we're frightened of what might happen. You could sense how important this subject was to talk about, and by doing it at a literature festival that is open to mass amounts of people it gave it a sense of safety because we could learn without fear of repercussions. Farrell writes how toxic masculinity has led to men having an irrational fear of being unable to provide for his family and simply not being good enough in the eyes of other men around them. Many people laugh at the concept of toxic masculinity due to the sheer ridiculousness of the expectations of men that are put upon them by other males. A fantastic example of this would be Piers Morgan and his ongoing fight against feminism and emasculation. Very often there is something on the news regarding him fighting someone over it being too womanly, one in particular being when he attacked Daniel Craig for carrying his own child - is it emasculating to look after your baby? Another example of his own toxic masculinity is from the day of the Women's March where he certainly had a lot to say, with a total of 163 tweets being sent out that day from his own account describing how he wanted to set up his own 'Men's March'.

During this interview you could understand that although there were a few light-hearted jokes around the subject of incel behaviour towards women, it was very obvious that it wasn't a subject to be overlooked. As most of Laura's research had been done over the internet, there was a lot of talk about how social media is moderated. Laura mentioned how social media giants refuse to take responsibility over the incel groups that form on their websites stating how "they can't afford 50,000 moderators" to make them just that little bit safer. With so much attention being brought to the way social media acts around misogynistic groups, it was clear that Laura and the interviewer had the biggest problem with YouTube. They mentioned that there were more people who had access to their own YouTube account than there were people with TVs in their homes. If that doesn't put the sheer amount of people who can be influenced by these groups into perspective then I don't know what else could. In an article 'Youtube, the Great Radicalizer', it discusses how algorithms work and how often if you started on a right wing Trump supporting video as an example, it will continue to suggest videos for you that are increasingly more and more right wing. Therefore by this logic, it would be incredibly easy for a young mind to be led astray by something as simple as searching for information on right wing politics.

On the topic of being influenced by social media, Laura discusses how men essentially groom other men into becoming a part of the incel community. She describes how those who are well established prey on weaker minded men who need some kind of outlet to get out their emotions that they feel towards women. They are taught to hate women for not giving themselves up sexually - an example of this being teenager Ben Moynihan who received 21 years in prison for the attempted murder of 3 women. Why, you may ask? Because he couldn't lose his virginity. Laura talks in detail about how these men are groomed into believing that they are victims of women, and that they ought to take revenge because of this. It was extremely difficult to listen to this subject being spoken about, particularly when thinking about how these men are sons, brothers and fathers and yet still feel the need to viciously act out against women because they feel like they are owed some part of us.

It is extremely frightening how the term Incel is used as a way to justify extremist misogynistic behaviour, especially considering it was initially created as a way to describe those who simply struggled to find a connection with someone. Instead I learnt that extremist men were using it as a phrase to celebrate committing terrorist hate crimes against women for something as simple as someone rejecting romantic advances. Hearing this turned my blood cold as it's not uncommon to hear horror stories from friends about how men have gotten aggressive when making them aware that you're not interested in them. It forces you to imagine how that situation could have gone differently, and whether these men are well versed in the term incel and if they hold the same values as these men who hate women for showing any kind of autonomy. This kind of event makes you realise the harsh reality of the society we live in, and that the fight women have had to gain independence and rights is still being questioned and threatened by insecure men who are undoubtedly dangerous.

Circling back to when Laura mentioned how her book Everyday Sexism had her receiving 200 daily death and rape threats, we begin to understand why there is this conception that the internet is being written to support a male agenda. Understanding this is certainly not for the faint of heart, as I had learnt from this one interview that only briefly skimmed over the subject. Cathy Newman, the first female presenter from Channel 4 news is also well known for experiencing the same kind of backlash that Laura endured for speaking out against these ludicrous ideas surrounding women. Both women could be considered to be having their moment of fame for an important cause, but then it calls into question at what cost? To speak out against the incel community (revolution) is in itself a death wish. Once a woman is brave enough to step forward and speak about inequality within today's society, she is essentially condemning herself to a life of targeted hate and feeling the need to be constantly looking over one's shoulder. But even with the threats that come with standing up to this corrupt community, Laura makes it evidently clear that the only way to beat it is to meet it head on. It is now our responsibility as women, teachers, parents, siblings etc. to educate ourselves on the reality of what is extremist misogyny. Only by doing this will we be able to safeguard our own and in turn be able to teach them about the harmful impact that these groups have. Laura makes a point to mention how easy it is to be involuntarily indoctrinated into these bizarre ideals and that we simply cannot choose to ignore it any longer. We have to now choose to educate and protect ourselves against being brainwashed by a terrorist community.

Although this event was most likely the hardest interview I will ever listen to, I am so glad I chose to attend. Durham Literature Festival became a part of this idea that we need to start to educate ourselves on the reality of extremist misogyny even though it was obvious that many people would struggle to listen. It was accessible to anyone who wanted to listen, and with it being an entirely free event to attend it meant that anyone with an interest could begin to understand that women are still fighting for their rights and that we need to once again take a stand against men who hate women. I know now to not be naive when considering who incels are, and that they are not just loners in their parent's basements. It's true that I am maybe now slightly more scared of men as there were no positives spoken about throughout this interview which is extremely sad, but I also believe that now I can begin a healing process all whilst continuing to educate myself on the reality of today's society. I do not regret attending this event, and I would be quick to attend another on the subject if I could. It has taught me to look out for these kinds of events, not only for viewing pleasure, but also as a means to learn about things that I would otherwise be somewhat oblivious to. I eagerly look forward to next year's literature festivals, and I hope to continue to learn about as many subjects as they become more open to me.